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Южачке в Польше нужен новый дом!!! SRO female from Poland needs new home!!!
Belyj_Boyar: COSACK CHAIKA Belyj Boyar - nuzhnyi novyi dom . Ee teper 15 mesacev . BEZ DENEG . Vziat nada s Polshy ( Gdansk ). Vsie dokumenty - rodoslovnaya FCI , Passport , Chip... Umnaya i prekrasnaya. No vladitelcy ee ne lubit i na oborot.... Kak nikto ee ne zahochet v 2 nedeli , oni ee ubiut... Pietia ----------------------------------------------- COSACK CHAIKA Belyj Boyar - нужныи новыи дом . Ее тепер 15 месацев . БЕЗ ДЕНЕГ . Взиат нада с Полшы ( Гданск ). Всие документы - родословная ФЦИ , Пасспорт , Чип... Умная и прекрасная. Но владителцы ее не лубит и на оборот.... Как никто ее не захочет в 2 недели , они ее убиут... ----------------------------------------------- COSACK CHAIKA Belyj Boyar needs new home. For free. She is now 15 months old. You can take her from Poland (Gdansk)... With all documents - FCI pedigree, veterinary passport, chip. Clever and beautiful! But not in love with her owners and vice versa. If nobody will take her in two weeks the owners are going to kill her.
Наталья&Горец: Лен, а чего это тебе щенок из Варшавы понадобился???
Бетти: Наталья&Горец пишет: Лен, а чего это тебе щенок из Варшавы понадобился??? а проблем же мало Чего мелочиться ? Вот эта красотуля : Если я не доставлю его во Владик - дочь меня растерзает. Мы его с большим трудом нашли. До Москвы действительно проблематично щенка из Европы доставить, если попутчиков нет. Фирмы сопровождения круто берут...
Бетти: kupr_is , Ирин, если что придумаете - черкни. может до Москвы вдвом добераться будут. Петя моего хулигагна отправит заодно. Дорогу поделим
Наталья&Горец: А что ты с ним в Москве со своего ДВ делать будешь? В Саратов идет прямой поезд через Варшаву.
VladKo: Это ответ Лео Босмана в Тройке на мое сообщение... К сожалению, у меня совсем нет времени переводить такой объем и программы-переводчика под рукой нет. Так что пока так... Hallo Vladimir and other Troika-readers, About this message I feel very bad, and it's difficult to express how much. I took me while to understand its meaning. One thing what is definitely NOT TRUE is that Cossack Chaika is not in love with the owners: she loves and adores them to the bone !!! The ONLY reason that I could detect from them, for which they like her replaced, is that the older dogs (they breed Soft Coated Wheaten terriers) did not accept her. Not an uncommon situation for dog people. They live rather rural and have pretty much space, so my idea would be "just keep some of the dogs apart from each other". So many people have that with all kinds of breeds. But Chaika loved all the younger ones and the puppies and played with them, just like with their daughter and if there was something strange, it was not between the owners and Chaika. They could coop very well with each other. They also did some obedience training and cosy playing games with her and according to my experience this was OK. But now at this time they have a litter of Soft Coated Wheatens and may be now Chaika costs too much time, and so I understand now they lost their patience (Diane, not being Chaika's breeder at all, and just being concerned about each SRO, bred by herself or by others never a point, was not able to play the fairy queen and find a new fitting owner for her quick enough within a couple of months: - she first got the request in about February this year!) and have given her back to the breeder, who already once refused to take her back at an earlier request (puppies have to become born, paid for, and never come back). May be some thing of an accident happened later on where I haven't heard about, but only very recently, but I'm v e r y surprised (although its true I often intent to naivity). The owners told me they want a real good address for her, and not just anyone. The breeder also has about just now, if I remember it correctly, a litter SRO's from the same combination as Chaika (Belaja Vorozheja Voland x Assol Ljutaja), and planned already another SRO litter for next Autumn as well. So, main problem with Chaika, with her original owners, the Soft Coated Wheaten breeders, as well at with her own breeder, where she seems to stay now, is that she does not fit in their breeding plans and schedules, as a semi-adult dog that desires attention and possibility to run a while each day. You have to know some of her "buttons" and then somebody who has any GOOD notion of shepherd dogs can deal with her. If you want a South Russian, you know what the breed is and if you live more rural, with a good amount of terrritory (or at least "a good dog garden") around your house and a big garden where she can play and run with another dog (she loves to have company) Chaika can be probably even ideal. There are some special details to her that you should pay attention to, but for an experienced dog person this can be no problem. Of course you need to be very consequent with her, specially now at this age, but if you know the trick with her you can even as stranger rather easy prick through the barrier of suspicion (she sells herself, just pay your penny and she is yours). The owners were surprised I could walk with her, have a chat with somebody I know that I met in the street, or a complete stranger, and that she allowed them to be strayed over the head and chin. She is not barketive when she feels at home somewhere, but you have to be bossy with her. If she wants to get things done from you, you have to ignore it and first later, when she respects your refusal, you can give her a favour and play with her, but only you have to start the play. Further she is very sweet and still a bit puppy like, very spontaneous. The only reason that I COULD not keep her (I had her for a short period on trial, and later another time when the owners had their holliday to Spain - grandma, because of her age, could look after the Soft Coat Wheatens, but not after Chaika) is that I live in a city, although park and small pieces of would nearby for the dogs, and it is a very crowded area here, and I have no car, and my flat (I live on my own) is very narrow and small and my garden only 4 x 6 meter (somebody called it one "your Russian flat"). Even with a maximum of efforts (walked about 20 kilometers a day with her, to fill in her need for exercise) it was only good enough as a temporarely minimum. Because a dog uses much more energy by running free 10 minutes than by walking 10 kilometers (about 2 hours). In fact she does not need that long walks that I did, but it was the only thing I could offer her, besides playing with tennisballs in the little garden. Sometimes we met a dog she likes and they could play on the leash, males, females no point, but just every dog (quite common for what I have seen with other SRO's over the years). Physically I have the strength temporaly but (idiot and stupid enough simple) not the space and physical energy nor the body anymore to do this on a permanent base. Don't think I just want the easy road, I cannot say how much I hate not being able to change this situation and I don't eat blood pressure pills for fun. If I would have lived more rural and would have had a larger fenced garden I would not have let her go, no doubt. When it is sunny wheather she likes to play in the garden, dig holes and trying out all things she can find, and she sleeps a lot between, and when it rains she is very quiet and only sleeps. She loves hugs and kisses and lying on her back on your lap (you need a two-sit or 3-sit coach then). When you have been out for a shopping and return, she'll sing you a song of joy and dances. But I've never seen her that happy as when the OWNER came back after there holidays to take her home: one explosion of joy and luck, but only for a short while as I understand now. I was happy to have Chaika the other time, just to make it possible for those people to have their holiday to Spain, so they could not blame the dog for robbing them from the holidays, and now this message .... I'm very well inclined now to give up Troika policies and become personal, but may be one thing happened where I don't know about. May be, when she would have grown up from puppy age on in my envirement, it would have been possible to train her even to behave more fitting for a crowded area, like where I live. On short distance she is quite well obedient by voice (but better use a load and persisting voice and don't accept a "no"). She learned several commands in German that you have to know and then it works well. Who wants to know more, just write me steenbrak@casema.nl I have more pictures, details of her blood relatives, forefathers, pedigree-scan, and some small movies of her taken with my photo-camera.
VladKo: И еще немножко фото этой собаки от Лео.
Наталья&Горец: Что и требовалось доказать, собственно. Что-то у меня на почту тройка перестала ходить... Мы договорились следующим образом: если протеже Ирины, который, по ее словам, очень хочет южака, не сможет ее забрать по каким-то причинам - я ее заберу. Я думаю, ее мытарства по рукам на этом закончатся, так что можно только порадоваться за нее. Петя, все мои слова остаются в силе, если по каким-то причинам ее переезд в Саратов сорвется, вы можете считать ее пристроенной у меня. Но забрать ее из Германии для меня будет неизмеримо труднее.
Valena: Наташ, переведи мне, пожалуйста
Наталья&Горец: Тут много, так что я в общих чертах только главное. Он пишет, что на самом деле, она очень любит хозяев и они хорошо вроде бы занимались с ней. С его точки зрения главная проблема в том, что они держат питомник пшеничных терьеров (петя давал ссылку на их сайт), имеют довольно много земли и поэтому собаки практически поодиночке. В результате она замечательно играет с щенками, очень любит дочь хозяев, но старшие собаки питомника ее не приняли. Кроме того, из-за своего питомника они фактически не хотят тратить на нее время, первый раз они попытались сдать ее обратно еще в феврале. Он говорит, что может быть, что-то случилось недавно, о чем он не знает, но вообще владельцы говорили ему, что они хотят только хорошие руки для нее, а не абы кого. Гавная ее проблема, как он говорит (и я совершенно с этим согласна, насколько я могу понять психологию людей), что она выпадает из всех планов, как владельца, так и заводчика. Этакая полувзрослая собака, ни щенок, который практически чистый лист, ни взрослая сука с проверенными пометами, на которую никто не хочет тратить время. Фактически она просто никому оказалась не нужна, стандартный вариант, случающийся у всех заводчиков время от времени. Дальше он пишет, что она замечательно его слушалась на улице, когда жила у него и вообще она очень покладистая и отзывчивая. Единственная причина, по которой он не может ее держать - это очень маленькая квартира с крошечным садиком, отсутствие машины, и сильная удаленность от всех мест, где можно гулять. Он реально за нее безумно переживает, но ей нужен нормальный дом. Она даже знает несколько команд по-немецки :) Володь, у меня, тройка не ходит, я думаю, им всем можно дать отбой насчет нее.
Belyj_Boyar: Leo ! with all my respect - somebody miss the truth ! Your post shock me !!!!! I write all informations basing on informations from Andreas : she bite him few times. they keep her at home on leash and in muzzle . they train her beating in head bottle with stones inside. last time she try to bite Andreas son , i attache part of they email to me : Hello Piotr, Yesterday evening Chaika bites our son Marvin and runs an attack against me. It was only luck that she didn´t bite me. We wanted to let us time to find a new home for her, but after the recent events it is not possible any more to give her this time. I don´t bring her to an animal asylum. I think she shouldn´t spend the rest of her life in a kennel. The alternative is to take her to the veterinarian to give her the last injection and I know no other way. I know that this is murder. second mail from Birgitt : Hello Piotr, unfortunately Chaika has again last night tries Andreas to bite. We made our decision . I do not see other possibility it give back to you. Since Andreas is not able to bring it to the border I will do it. To be driven my mother-in-law me to accompany, there I not accustomed are so many hours car. I ask to bring along there you the 1,200 euro (Chaika to a breed-suited dog developed ect itself perfectly, teeth. ) thus fr you a breeder use brings, is we to the opinion that we should get the puppy money returned. we supplied and try it with all us the available means and possibilities everything to do thereby it with it with us functioned. You get a very beautiful (you said the most beautiful dog of the whole throw) back. I think that am only fairly it to be handled in such a way. It does us in the soul pain however we sees no more other possibility acting in such a way. Please understand us and believe us that we really everything did around it to change. Andreas makes itself groe concerns which with Chaika after the delivery you passed. It does not have fear it comes somewhere where is lucky. Please promise us which we far with you contact to have can over experience whether it lives still with you, or where you delivered it. That will calm Andreas down much. On this weekend I will bring it to you gladly to border, will be there on Saturday noon like that 1,00 o'clock. How does it fit temporally with you or does go it only on another day? Please thereby maile times back we plan themselves can. I thank you in vorraus Greet Birgitt I SEND TO HIM MY FRIEND , WHO IS A PROFI TRAINER - THEY NOT WANT TO MEET HIM !!! THEY WANT TO BRING ME PUPPY BACK FIRST TIME AT AGE 10 MONTHS - I SAID OK . AFTER 4 MONTHS SHE WRITE ME - OK YOU CAN TAKE HER - GIVE MONEY FOR PUPPY BACK TO US !!! - THATS NOT THING WITH MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! SHE SPEND 2 WEEKS IN LEO HOME BECAUSE THEY GO TO HOLIDAY TO SPAIN ..... I GOT ALL EMAIL HISTORY WITH THEM - they write or tell me ones , to other people other "theory" to another - another one..... that is my response to them : Dear Andreas & Briggit ! > > We sold You 7 weeks old puppy. And You thru almost one year create from > this puppy adult dog. Chaika is absolutely not agressive . She is simply > leader in Your human and animal family , because You let her for this > behaviour. You work for her leadership last 10 months very hard , day > after day. You put to Chaika lack of trust in You as a humans , and lack > of trust in You as a leaders. You was thinking , You can make her fully > ( totally is better word ) obedient thru simple mechanical commands and > methods. You should start to do everything what should be done to > correct this situation 7 months earlier - immitadely after first signals > of her stubborn behaviour and "agression". > I do everything what i should to help You. I give You my knowledge , > experience , i talk with my trainer and " dog psychatrist " to help You > fix Your problem. I try to make appoinment with him for fee-free > consultation in Germany close to Your home ( he go to Netherlands ) , > but You don't have time for this... . > > In my opinion , that is not mine - as a breeder- fault , and especially > not Chaika fault . On 25 "puppies" thru last 3 years - NOBODY got > agression problems , including dogs leaved/imported in my home . > > Buying Southrussian Ovcharka , You know what You do . You think long , > You ask and visit other breeders . You choose puppy . We sold You 'raw' > puppy dog , and You form her to todays result. That's why all > responsibility of Chaika behaviour is on Your side. > Demanding of taking back adult "experienced" dog with demanding of > "money back guarantee" is ridiculous and not acceptable. dog is not a > toy , which You can destroy , and bring to store back saying "i don't > like this toy anymore , give my money back". > > The best what You can do is to find professional trainer , which help > You find and build : love , trust , leadership , and perfect > relationship between You and Chaika again . > > sincerly Yours > > Peter
Наталья&Горец: Прелестная история. они рассказывают, как она покусала их сына, пыталась покусать Андреаса и все такое. Типа, они хотели дать время найти ей новых хозяев, но ситуация такова, что они не видят другого выхда, как вернуть ее Питеру или усыпить. Патетически этак: "Я знаю, что это убийство". И тут же в следующем письме они пишут, что ожидают 1200 назад, дескать, она в хорошем состоянии. Мне понравилась фраза: "Вы же получаете назад отличную собаку, вы сами говорили, что она лучшая в помете". Ответ Пети в общих чертах следующий: Они взяли ее 7-ми недельной и все это время делали из нее вожака своей семьи. Она не агрессивна, у него из 25 щенков за три года никого не обвинили в проблемах с агрессией. Покупаю южнорусскую овчарку они знали, что они делают и они получили тит результат, который формировали. Большими буквами написано следующее: Петя давал им контакты своего знакомого тренера, который мог бы им помочь найти с ней общий язык и воспитать ее - они не хотят с ним встречаться. первый раз они хотели ее отдать, когда ей было 10 месяцев, он согласился ее забрать. через 4 месяца ни написали: Ок, ты можешь забрать ее, отдавай назад наши деньги. Он пишет, что это не товар с гарантией на возврат денег. Потом они отдали ее Лео, потому что сами поехали в испанию.
Наталья&Горец: Вот поэтому я и не хочу с ними общаться. Петя, так я не поняла, им нужны деньги или нет? Я думаю, это очень важно для саратовского товарища, который хочет ее взять.
Belyj_Boyar: i deeply belive she is not agressive to ENYONE except they owners . Leo's post means that for me enough ...
Наталья&Горец: Я так понимаю, что Питер в шоке от того, насколько розово представил все это дело Лео. Он говорит, что уверен, что она не агрессивна к любому человеку, кроме ее владельцев. Я забыла, кстати, сказать: в начале предыдущего поста он написал, что они держат ее в доме на поводке и в наморднике и обучают ее избивая по голове бутылкой с камнями внутри.
Наталья&Горец: Ок, я ушла спать, пишите как обстоят дела. Можно по-английски :) Я пишу по-русски, чтобы не переводить лишний раз.
Belyj_Boyar: Ya v shoke , potomu , chto to chto vsio ploho sdelal ya - potomu chto ne hochu ee vziat nazad i otdat dengi za nee ( a byli i mysli chtoby za edu za 1 god dengi dat....) . A vladitelcy sdelali vsio horosho - i ya i oni znaem tochno v chom delo ! Ona IH TOLKO ne lubit - pomnite - u menia doma ee sestra , druguyu sestru vizhu 2-3 raza v mesac , pishu ili zvoniu odin raz v mesac s vsiemi vladitelcami shchenkov s pometov.... i ya plohoi - potomu chto pishu pravdu - a oni horoshyie - potomu chto oni tak napisali .... smeshno . Ya ee videl na polsko-germanskiej granicy kak ee bylo 7-8 mesacev - vsio normalno ! Tolko kak mnie uvidela i poznala - vladitelcy kak by ih dla nee ne bylo .... Ob radosti sobaki do vladitelcov- mozhesh bit sobaku celyie goda , a ona i tak raduetsa kak vozvrashchaesh doma.... gustnyie , no pravda.... A znaete shchaslivuyu sobaku kotoraya VSIO delaet ili ne delaet na kommandu ?????? ---------------------------------------- Я в шоке , потому , что то что всио плохо сделал я - потому что не хочу ее взиат назад и отдат денги за нее ( а были и мысли чтобы за еду за 1 год денги дат....) . А владителцы сделали всио хорошо - и я и они знаем точно в чом дело ! Она ИХ ТОЛКО не лубит - помните - у мениа дома ее сестра , другую сестру вижу 2-3 раза в месац , пишу или звониу один раз в месац с всиеми владителцами шченков с пометов.... и я плохои - потому что пишу правду - а они хорошыие - потому что они так написали .... смешно . Я ее видел на полско-германскией границы как ее было 7-8 месацев - всио нормално ! Толко как мние увидела и познала - владителцы как бы их дла нее не было .... Об радости собаки до владителцов- можеш бит собаку целыие года , а она и так радуетса как возврашчаеш дома.... густныие , но правда.... А знаете шчасливую собаку которая ВСИО делает или не делает на комманду ??????
VladKo: Петя, вам не надо оправдываться. Мы все прекрасно понимаем, в чем там дело. А то что хозяева не признаются сами себя, что они виноваты, что испортили свои отношения с собакой - это довольно типичные человеческие слабости. Мы тоже с таким сталкивались... Нужно быть сильным, чтобы признать свои ошибки. Не все это могут. И если я правильно понял, Лео сам в шоке, что так все получилось - он не думал, что все так плохо с хозяевами. Более того, он пишет, что она управляема, весела, активна, дружелюбна. И вас он вовсе ни в чем не обвиняет. PS. Они там в последний момент не передумают отдавать ее бесплатно? Это очень важно, поймите.
Belyj_Boyar: VladKo - eshcho raz bolshoe spasibo za translaciju na Russkiy. Her behaviour in Leo's home means evidently "my" version of this situation - i think better for her . Anyway. By my opinion ( very similar to Leo's opinion ) : she is nice , full of happiness and enthusiathic girl . she love company of other dogs and humans. She is obedient - but hate to do everything on command - she need flexibility , love , passion , understanding and trust . It takes some time ( i think 1-2 months ) to corect her few bad habits . She pay for that incredible love , trust , confidence and loyalty . I supose like her siblings she loves "free rides" thru the plot , play with tennis ball , play's with other dogs ... She should be very esay to groom , earclean and other cosmetics . She can live outside and inside home . Love to travel on car. thats why leo can't belive in her bad habits to her owner .... All what she need is love , love , love... Why i "don't want to take her back" ? Because i can't ! I have 9 dogs in my home now . All females bleeding ... 1 is mated ( CARMEN Savitas with ATAMAN BB ) , second be mated in period of 1 week ( JARKA Balandis with CARAT Savitas ) . in June and July we move from Poland to our new home in Finland - all things and 9 dogs moving with large combi car with trailor -10000 km in one week . We have leaved in our home her sister - CLARISSA . They first idea was to bring me her back with money refund . Later they say - with money we agree . Now they say : WITHOUT MONEY . How is truly ? You know that what I . BUT : HE PROMISE TO BRING CHAIKA TO MY HOME - THAT CAN MEAN IT IS THE TRUTH
VladKo: Новое письмо в Тройке от Leo Bosman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hallo, Here some additional information about the actual "female in danger". At the end this morning I have had contact with her owners in Germany and they told me a whole different story, what I do believe 100%, as I was able to meet them and have had a lot of contact with them earlier this year. I'm sorry, the first version of the message made me upset, and so coloured in my first reaction with too much paint as I see, but now the following information replaces my worries and speculations of yesterday. This is how the case is really: The owners of the female just only contacted the breeder with the question once more if he could do something to help for a proper replacement of Chaika. So the breeder might have found it a good idea sending a message to Russia about a socalled deadly untimatum for 2 weeks, which is nonsense as far I can see. She is not in danger that much, but they just like her to be replaced because they expect trouble with their older dogs. They say she is a sweet good dog (true, I confirm) and no tricky things happened. They thought long before taking a SRO, but now discovered that for their situation taken a SRO prooved to be not such a good idea. But they are good dog people, and don't want anything bad happen to their SRO, they just realy want a good reliable address for her, certainly don't want her to become in hands of people who want to make financial profit of her or something like that. They will not allow her to go to people with doubtful ideas about dog training as well. Even it will mean a foreign journey they as well intent to visit any new owner afterwards a couple of times, just to be sure their SRO is realy in good hands. The way I experienced Chaika, she is very devoted to people, so living in a family or with people as a house dog will be a good thing. Another dog friend that "clicks" to play with will be very fine. At the other hand she intents very much to do "something together", a kind of job this or that, and may be she would like it to live with people who have sheep, so she can help them by keeping an eye on them and do some herding if the sheep have to go from one field to another or something like that. She is very strong and high (70 cm) on the legs, but anyone who likes to train her should be a very friendly, easy gently person (although Consequent with a Capital character). She needs a lot of personal attention, not just like only "one of the collection", and at the same time this is the tool how you can deal with her, and the main keys are hugs and friendly words, sweet whispers in her ears. Some commands you have to give with a loud voice, because she has learned to obey to that, can sit and lie down on cammand (only you have to say it in German). She is very sweet, but persistant in her longings and her awareness is quicker than a thought and she registrates every single unthoughtful movement of her owner in detail and keeps it all arranged in her excellent memory. So, she is very willing to learn the things in which she is interested. To people (I mean strangers) she reacts more vicious than she realy is. She is not used to live somewhere, where people are walking along and by everyday, and asocial people, just running too close to her (joggers) she will pinch them to the ground witin one second (may be nothing happenes when they stand still, are easy and don't move further, as soon she jump on to them, but most joggers are usually too stupid people and I did not tried this out) and run (and she runs where she looks) after many things that she doesn't know, or draws her attention, like birds, other dogs (sometimes just to play, but certainly not always and may be this can chage as well, taken her age of 15 months (my Gorda changed her attitudes to other dogs completely around that age). Although, each SRO has its own typical individual character those things of course has also to do with the fact she grew up in the country side, very small village, plenty of dog walk possibilities &c. This is one of the main reasons I cannot take her, and I even would call myself irrisponsible if I would, because she is still that young, much temperament, high energy, enorm mobile, and it will take quite a (too) long time to get her sofar that she might be able to run free off leash everyday. All the time I should have to drill her into some kind of prison or harness, she does not understands why she is not allowed to run off-leash anymore, what makes the dog too stressed and myself even more, knowing I cannot give her what she needs. And I even don't speak about making her used to travel by bus, tram or railway, it will all ask a little too much "brainwash" for her, all at the same time. Therefor I hope somebody with a good dog garden and a good sence and love for dogs might be able to take her, give her the personal attention (like allowing her to come into your bed each morning for some romance to make sure you don't forget to stand up at the right time) she needs and he/she will be god to her. Regards, Leo
Valena: Всем, привет! Мрачная история. Радует, что столько не равнодушных людей, желающих помочь. Многие, наверное, видели, что я разместила инфу на форуме русдога. так вот, Юра Харсон может хабрать собачку на передержку и обеспечить ей достойные условия. А дальше можно думать, что и как. Он уже созванивался с хозяевами и оставил им свой телефон. И вроде про усыпление они ничего не говорили. Посмотрим как далее будут развиваться события. Желающие ее взять на форуме, вопрос как я понимаю с доставкой.
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